Welcome to Shopify Masters, a weekly podcast brought to you by Shopify, the easiest way to sell online and in-person for a streamlined experience. Each week, we invite entrepreneurs like you to share what they’ve learned growing successful businesses. 

This is Shuang Esther Shan from Shopify, and this week, I’m helping our host Felix Thea share a story from Natalie Holloway and Max Kislevitz, who are life and business partners and the founders of Bala. 

Bala Bangles are stylish weighted bands that can amplify just about any workout. Since launching in 2018, they’ve turned an idea on a napkin to a multimillion business. 

In this episode, you will learn how the husband and wife team
	•	Pitched on Shark Tank and had all sharks vying to be their partner  
	•	How they received media coverage from notable publications like Vouge, Marie Claire, and Glamour  
	•	And how they are managing an influx of sales during COVID-19  

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Shuang: Welcome to the show, Natalie and Max.
Natalie: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Max: Yeah, happy to be here.
Shuang: I know that you guys have seen a lot of growth since launching just over two years ago from Kickstarter to Shark Tank. Before we dive into all of that, can you tell us how the idea of Bala Bangles came to be?
Natalie: Yeah. You can go ahead and take this one.
Max: Sure. It's a funny story in that it's intertwined with Natalie and I, and our early relationship. We had worked at an ad agency called 72andSunny in Los Angeles working on major brands like Starbucks, and Google, and Coors Light, I think was the last account I'd worked on. And it was really a quite intensive job working round the clock on a deadline oriented business. So, we ultimately decided to leave that company and traveled for about eight months through Southeast Asia.
Max: It was on that trip that we attended a yoga class that was far more meditative than we'd hoped. And shortly after the class, we'd said, whatever happened to the wrist and ankle weights from the 1980s. It was in that moment that we just started sketching the idea on a napkin, and the napkin eventually became a prototype, and the prototype eventually became Bala Bangles.
Shuang: That's super awesome because I think anyone who works out, we have seen those not so pretty ankle or risk weights. So you guys have definitely created a stylish alternative. Even with your experience in advertising, how do you jump into product design, and how do you get started on developing a product?
Natalie: I mean, we basically just... We didn't know at the outset how to do anything. How to grow a business, how to do a prototype, any of that. But what we did know is we knew to figure out the next step. So, we basically, advertising really teach just to problem solve. So, if we had a problem like finding a manufacturer we would just start googling that problem, talking to people, and talking to Max's family who's in the toy business. And from there, we just figured out the next step and just kept taking steps.
Shuang: Awesome. How did you test to see... You guys thought this would be a cool idea. How do you test to see there's consumers out there that also not only the idea, but they're willing to also pay for this new product?
Max: Yeah. It's a really interesting question. We didn't necessarily know that folks would respond to it. We had this theory, and almost the hypothesis that if you saw one person in a yoga class wearing these bangles, inevitably that 20 other people in the class would take notice, and it would pique their interest. And then we extended that theory even further by saying, it's likely that folks would take photos of themselves wearing these in the context of coming from or going to a class based workout. And so, we didn't really know with any certainty that folks would take interest in it, but we did theorize that if they did, it would catch on over time just by virtue of the world we live [crosstalk 00:04:03] where folks are dressing up to go to the gym. So, it felt it was the right time and right approach for a product this.
Natalie: And I would say early on, that's where Kickstarter, I think we made the right decision by going to Kickstarter because when we launched our Kickstarter, we had no idea if anybody would even be interested in the product. But it was a really great way to test the market. So, I would say if your product has... if you just want to test the market, Kickstarter, Indiegogo, those are great places to get your product out there into these communities testing the product and giving you feedback early on before you really launch and dive all in.
Shuang: How far do you have to be within your product development when you do go into Kickstarter? Did you already have samples and prototypes that are ready to go when you went into crowdfunding?
Natalie: So, we actually, when our Kickstarter, if you look at the photos it's totally a different product than what we actually launched because we launched a very early prototype, and it just looks very different. It was so early on. We had not gone into production yet. So we launched with this prototype. We had it in hand, but it was definitely not perfect. So we use the duration of the Kickstarter, and the production timeline that we gave the buyers on Kickstarter to really perfect the product, and do little tweaks, and up until... I mean, we were making product tweaks until a week before we started receiving the product or something. So, I would say it was, you can definitely launch with a prototype, as long as you think that it will turn into a beautiful product at the end with some tweaks along the way.
Shuang: What about communicating your idea to everyone online? It's your concept, but you have to distill it into a short video, into images, and really gives the value to those who are backing you and showcase why this product needs to exist.
Max: Yeah. It's funny because with the wrist and ankle weight, we stumbled on to a product that everyone and their mother is familiar with. But there wasn't a good version of. If you remember the wrist and ankle weights from the 80s, they're made of neoprene, which frankly absorbs sweat. So inevitably, over time, they start to smell and the materials also loose and clunky on your wrist. So, we sort of lucked out. I'd love to say we did it deliberately, but in finding a product that everyone was familiar with, but were no longer using because of those deficiencies. And so, that made it quite a bit easier for us to be able to communicate to folks online what these things were because they already had a reference point. These are stylish risk weights. We didn't need to explain what a risk weight was. It wasn't the first time folks would be wearing a weight. It's just the best design version in 20 some odd years. So, we had some advantages in terms of the product that we were trying to bring to life in a new way.
Shuang: How many iterations until you guys found the perfect setup with your cast iron, and also silicon that's recycled? What was that process like going back and forth and finding that ideal design?
Max: Yeah. As Natalie mentioned earlier, the thing that advertising probably instilled in us the most is to take... embrace an iterative process. So, the first version of something doesn't have to be great so long as the last version is. We just kept going until we felt like it was perfect, and it met the standards we'd had in our own minds about how great and functional and beautifully designed this could be. And so, we probably went through, I want to say, north of a dozen prototypes. In fact, even the use of cast iron was something that we've used early. But then we discovered that cast iron is prone to having bubbles in the metal, which leads to inconsistency in the weight. So now we're using stainless steel inserts in our design. So, it's that iterative approach that is not specific to material or specific to design or colors or the closure we use. But it's inclusive of all of those things.
Natalie: Yeah. I would add that we're still, we're always evolving and perfecting the product. So it's like any little flaw that we see we're working on perfecting, whether that's increasing the elastic or the Velcro. So, I would say we're still... We'll always be making tiny tweaks to make it just ever so slightly better.
Shuang: That's amazing. So during this whole Kickstarter and launching the business, were you guys still working full time and having this idea run on the sidelines before jumping in full time?
Natalie: Yeah, I mean, we bootstrapped for a long time. I quit my full time job in advertising about a year ago. And that's when we had somebody full time working on the business, which is me. Max just quit about two months ago.
Max: At this point.
Natalie: Yeah, at this point two months ago. So, we really bootstrapped for a long time, which really helped us with a lot of our, the values in the company and the way we use our cash and our resources, and our work ethic. So, I'm glad that we bootstrapped the thing, but we definitely bootstrapped for a while.
Max: Yeah, it's funny too because we've all seen those explosion of direct to consumer brands that seemingly overnight have a billion dollar valuation. The Caspers and OWAYS of the world. Our approach was what we'd like to refer to as just sustainable growth. We were funding the next production run through the sales of the previous run. And so, we hadn't taken on formal investment. And so, inevitably, you're just going to scale more slowly, but to Nat's point, you can improve the product along the way. You can respond to market feedback. And so, there is, sure, we've not become a billion dollar brand overnight, and that's awesome and exciting, but there is a slow and steady wins the race approach that has been really helpful for us.
Shuang: Yeah, you guys are really building for the long term and preparing for a marathon versus just a sprint.
Max: Totally. We believe we're already designing new products that bring that design sensibility to these otherwise utilitarian fitness accessories. So, we believe that Bala is not specific to Bala Bangles, but Bala can be a long term five to 10 year growth trajectory. And so, it's not about selling, sales overnight. It's a brand over time, I think is the cliche.
Shuang: Nice. So, after Kickstarter you met your goal. After that what kind of steps did you guys take to grow a following and have a reach beyond the campaign?
Natalie: So, I would say we really, again, our strategy was very scrappy and bootstrapping. We really leaned on, we didn't do Instagram ads or anything. We leaned on free resources so we really worked on building our Instagram and curating a beautiful Instagram. I would say honestly, that's where a lot of our early buyers found us. That's where free people found us, which was one of our big breaks, I would say. And so, we really worked on that and maybe reaching out to press that we found online or reaching out to micro or influencers and seeing if they want to test our product. Really, that's what we used early because we didn't really have marketing budgets and money to spend. So that's what we did to facilitate growth early on and get our name out there.
Max: I would just add really quickly, for a product no one's ever seen before, there is just an inherent skepticism from a buyer of if it's worth spending money on. I think that it's true of a consumer product like a wearable weight, but it's also true about the shampoo or consumable? You need credibility through some sort of third party before people are going to say, "Yeah, that looks legit and is worth my hard earned cash." And so, things getting a press mention or getting into a known retailer give you instant credibility. And it's that first domino to fall that essentially kickstart sales and other retail relationships and other press mentions. We've just had this almost snowball effect of the very first retailers that found us like free people ultimately snowballing into our having hundreds of retail relationships. So, it's those first few that you really need to grind for. Not to say we've stopped grinding, but those are the critical relationships that give you credibility for a product people might not otherwise buy into.
Shuang: Yeah, and you guys have press coverage from Vogue, Marie Claire, Glamour, and these are very impressive names. But how did you start reaching out, and what was the process like? Because I bet there's a lot of... It's a numbers game. There's a lot of work that you guys put in to get those mentions.
Natalie: Yeah, I think early on, we were living in New York at the time. I think we tried to leverage any connection we had. We definitely did some cold outreach. I would go through a Shape Magazine and look at the editors name, find them on Instagram, DM them, see if they wanted a product. A scrappy strategy like that we would do, but then also we would really leverage our connections. So early on, I had a friend of a friend that knew and editor at Shape, so I asked for a meeting there and then we went up to the Shape building and got a feature. And that was one of our early features that then snowballed into other features. So, I would say it's definitely a combo of who do you know, and using those connections. Also, with pickup a magazine and look at the editors, and literally just reach out to them on Instagram. So, that combo really helped us get press early on.
Shuang: Yeah, and I think a lot of people think that once you put something online, the virality happens mostly online, but in reality there's a lot of hustling and hard work that happens offline in person. So yeah, that's great to hear. So you mentioned free people, which is a subsidiary of Urban Outfitters, and I know that you guys live in Canada. We see you guys in Indigo and Chapters. Also, goop, Gwyneth Paltrow's brand also carries you guys. So, how do you start reaching out to wholesalers and getting their buying to carry your products?
Natalie: So, I think again, there that was a combo. It was, I think, free people we lucked out. They found us on Instagram. That was amazing. But then for example like, [Band Gear 00:15:54], I think Max or myself, we looked up the buyer. We found them on LinkedIn, sent them a message. So, it was really just like, same with goop. I think we've probably sent them a ton of messages and never got a response. But then one day, I think they ended up finding us and they reached out. So, it was a case by case basis. But early on we were doing everything we could just to find a buyer contact, and send a cold email. Oftentimes, we wouldn't get a response, but every now and then, like Band Gear is huge for us. They responded and they bought the product, and that probably helped us get into a lot of the other retailers we're in. So, I would say that's how.
Max: It's comparable to trying to find almost your first job. You have your parents, and family friends saying, "Reach out to anyone and everyone you know, and then reach out to those people's network." And all of a sudden you find that you're connected to far more people than you'd otherwise imagined. Then you have to be as resourceful trying to get into a retailer or trying to have someone write something compelling about you as you would for your job because in reality, at least for us, they're one and the same at this point. So whatever we have to do to be able to have a meaningful conversation about how Bala might fit into a retailer's store, we're going to do that thing.
Natalie: Yeah. And I would say the key there, if you have a great product, and that all you need to do is get it in somebody's hands. The key there is all we needed to do was get it in their hands. So, we were really just offering free samples. Here's a free gift. Because we knew once we got it in somebody's hand, they're like, "Wow, I want to buy this." So, I think if you have a good product, get it in their hands, let them play with it, fall in love with it, and then the rest will follow.
Shuang: Within these relationships, how many would you say it was fully virtual, you just reached out, asked if you could send in a free sample, and then the relationship developed online versus the ones that you actually had to meet in person, showcase Bala, and then have that relationship develop.
Natalie: Most were definitely online. We happened to meet the Shape editor I mentioned, and then also Band Gear, I think I went in for a meeting. But other than that, everything was pretty much done online because free people's in Philadelphia, so it's like, that wasn't really happening. So, most of our appointments were done just by phone, honestly, which is great.
Max: Yeah, the one important exception is we have attended quite a few trade shows. And so, you can go... there are trade shows for virtually any and every category. And so, we went to those that had a fashion sensibility more so than a fitness based trade show because we'd felt the product really does belong in more of a free people than a heard core weightlifting enthusiastic environment. It's not to say the product isn't additive there as well, but we just... That was our early point of entry, and so we attended trade shows and met buyers there in real life that inevitably continued the conversation virtually. So, it is a bit of a combo. I think we deliberately hedged our bets by reaching out to people on LinkedIn, but also attending trade shows ensuring that Instagram was putting our best foot forward and things that.
Shuang: Speaking of trade shows, how do you calculate the benefits of attending one because I think when you're just starting out and bootstrapping, it is a bit of an investment to go to those events?
Natalie: Yeah. It's expensive. So, we basically, we literally would just have a spreadsheet after each one and we... Because basically they say that it's six months post the show where you can see your full... And even longer than that, honestly, your full sales because you may have met a Nordstrom buyer, but they actually aren't ready to buy until a year after the show. So, we would literally just have a spreadsheet, and every time we got a sale that came from that trade show directly, we entered it in, and we would track the cost versus our profit. And if we were profitable, then we just kept going to shows. So, we probably have been to about five trade shows. And we kept going because they were profitable, and we were meeting buyers there. So, we really just wrote it all down in a spreadsheet, and did an analysis of whether it was truly beneficial to go-
Shuang: Amazing.
Natalie: Profit, yeah.
Shuang: So, it seems like a lot of the early growth is done organically by building up an Instagram, and also reaching out to people. At which point did you actually transition into putting in ad dollars and having a bit of marketing budget?
Max: It's funny because we haven't than that.
Natalie: We still don't do that. We're going to soon.
Max: Yeah, honestly, it's a question of bandwidth and resource. On the bandwidth side we're a small team. We've just recently hired a few folks to help out. So, there were other priorities that we needed to address before starting to invest in paid media, and all the the tips and tricks to drive sales because we were selling organically. So, for some businesses, you're actually making that early splash through that advertising investment is critical. For ours we were riding this wave of interest and enthusiasm from both retailers and direct to consumer folks, right?
Max: Then I guess on the resource side, our critical challenge was inventory management. And so, every dollar we'd make from selling a product we would put back into the next production run to be able to service the demand for the product. So, spending money on advertising to essentially promote products we would then not be able to afford to buy didn't make sense for us. So, we're now at a point where through the Shark Tank investment, most obviously, we we have funds allocated to pay digital, inclusive of email marketing, Facebook and Instagram ads, etc, that will be rolling out within the next couple months.
Shuang: No, but I also think that's very refreshing to hear just how you guys have organically built this. So, speaking of Shark Tank, what motivated you guys to go on, and essentially pitch?
Natalie: Well, essentially, Max always says this, but when you start when you start any business, everybody, your aunt, your mom, your friend are like you should go on Shark Tank. Especially if it's a unique product. So, everybody said that to us early on, but then one day Max's family, basically his aunt or second mom, Nora, said, "You guys really should go on Shark Tank." This is early on, and I was just motivated by her saying that. And so, I sent them an email. You can apply via email. And so, we did that. And then they got back to us, and we were in the running for season 10. It was going to be our first few months in business. So we got up to where I think right before they were going to book our flights to LA, and essentially they told us that we were dropped off the list and they don't really tell you why.
Natalie: We were super bummed because it's a lot of work. But then, I don't know, eight months later we get a call from one of the producers saying, "Would you be interested in going on for season 11 or applying for season 11?" We said, "Of course." So then we went ahead and applied for season 11, and then got gotten chosen. I think it's one of those things where if you have the opportunity, you're in the running for Shark Tank, it's just such a huge opportunity that you just go for it, especially if you're growing your brand, you have a story to tell. So to us it was absolutely a no brainer.
Shuang: Nice. How do you prep for a pitch on Shark Tank because I feel like there's a lot of spinning plates. You have to remember your story, the numbers, prepped on different questions that might pop up.
Max: You're prepping for the most intense test you've ever taken. And it's fun and it's exciting, but it's also admittedly terrifying because the show is as portrayed when you're watching it from home. You walk down the tunnel, and you confront these mega investors that also have the power of celebrity-
Natalie: And you get one shot.
Max: And you get one shot to do it right. So, you prep accordingly. We wrote our pitch, and practiced it no less than 1000 times. It might be a single word that you're changing that just helps the flow and cadence of the pitch. So you'll change it. And after 1000 times you have it committed to memory. I could recite it now, but [crosstalk 00:25:20]. What we also did was take that same approach for the Q&A, and just did a bunch of scenario planning. What happens if no Sharks are interested? What happens if all of them are? What happens if they low ball us on the valuation? What happens if they give us a royalty deal like Mr. Wonderful loves to do so? Having watched every episode of Shark Tank at least twice we could start to piece together the questions we thought they might ask and then also just exhaustively listed all the other questions they could potentially ask, just so that we were prepared. So, we just took it really, really seriously. Because, again, it was the most important test of our lives at least.
Natalie: Yeah. And I would say that basically, obviously, we watched every episode and wrote down every question and rehearsed with each other. But another thing that really helped us prepare right before the show is we had friends and family come over and pretend to be the Sharks and be a panel. And they would just give us a hard time, and we'd get flustered. And it was really helpful, I think, to do that role playing Shark Tank experience. The night before the show, two nights before the show, and that way we were really prepared and with other people actually testing us.
Shuang: Those are some great friends. Also, I feel it's very serendipitous because you guys ended up being on the episode with the guest Shark, Maria Sharapova. So, it's perfect having an athlete investor. And then also having the five Sharks kind of fight over you guys. What was that feeling like? Because I remember seeing you guys whisper to each other during that period, what were you guys saying to each other at that point?
Natalie: It was extremely surreal and overwhelming because you have to go in there thinking that they could pick you apart, and that's fine too because they do that, they're Sharks. So, for all of them to be in, we could not believe it. I had a dream the night before that Mark and Maria, the people we wanted, actually wanted us, and it came true. So, that was awesome. But basically, it was really crazy, surreal, overwhelming feeling.
Max: It's funny, if you've watched enough Shark Tank you've seen businesses that you think are really interesting and compelling not do all that well in the Tank. And similarly, you've seen businesses that you don't think are all that interesting do really well. And so, you really can't predict how things are going to unfold. We had confidence in the product idea, and we'd had sales to validate that at least the market interest in it. And so, we felt good about our business and brand, but you have no idea if they'll ultimately take issue with it and feel the same way. So, it was the most surreal experience of my life to have five Sharks that I'd watched for 10 years on TV, if not longer for Maria Sharapova has been a tennis icon for the last 20 years. It was the most surreal experience imaginable.
Natalie: I think I was... because you asked what I was whispering. I think I was whispering a lot of things, but one of the main things toward the end was take the deal, take the deal, because I really wanted him to take the deal with Mark and Maria, but some other things I don't really remember honestly, but I was whispering to Max a lot. That's for sure.
Max: Yeah. What you don't necessarily understand is they're having conversations amongst themselves while you're standing up there at points. They obviously were having a bit of a dialogue, so we took those moments to try to-
Natalie: Connect.
Max: ... connect with one another and make sense of how we wanted to handle this because literally, you're on the spot. And you're making huge commitments based on the company you've worked on for thousands and thousands of hours. So, it's a really high stress situation, but obviously, it played out really well for us.
Shuang: And now, how's life after the episode has aired, and what are you guys doing to meet this exponential growth in demand essentially?
Max: Yeah. It's interesting because our episode aired on February 28th, and it was only a few short weeks later that folks started sheltering in place in light of the global pandemic. And interestingly, we did see an uptick in Bala as a result of folks trying to stay fit while staying home. So, we had this one two punch of the exposure associated with Shark Tank, and then interest in fitness products, not exclusive to Bala but inclusive of Bala, all over the world. And so, we did everything we could to service that demand, and are continuing to do so. We eventually ran out of product, frankly, and so, we've started offering pre-orders on our site to get folks product as quickly as we possibly could. But yeah, could never have anticipated that interest and demand associated with Shark Tank and then a second wave associated with the pandemic.
Natalie: Yeah, I would just say that we're basically, as Max mentioned, since demand has been so crazy every time we restock it sells out in minutes. It's actually crazy. And so, what we've been trying to do is, again, have pre-orders up on the site. So, at least if our next delivery is in one month you can buy in and know that you're going to get product from that delivery. So we've been doing pre-orders, but then we've also been posting free workouts to our website. We have a workout section, and then doing Instagram workouts as well to just keep the community engaged, and also give our community something even though they can't buy our product necessarily right now. So, that's a way we've been trying to keep up with the demand and stuff like that.
Shuang: Yeah, so have you guys faced some of the logistics and shipping restraints with COVID-19? Especially, with working with manufacturers, and then also meeting the demands of not just your consumers, but also maybe some of the wholesalers as well?
Max: Yeah. Navigating those challenges is new to all of us because this is unprecedented. Thankfully, we have a really strong relationship with our manufacturing partner in China. And so, we were able to be really communicative with one another throughout the process. And because China started to recover as it was really hitting the US, we were just trying to be transparent with one another about the lead times necessary to produce and deliver product. And so, everything is happening more slowly, but because we are armed with the information about those timelines, we can be communicative with customers on when a pre-order is likely to come through. So, the logistics have gotten harder and more complicated, but we've just tried to be as open and honest and communicative with both our suppliers and our customers about navigating those delays. I would say on the retail side, it's the same situation. Retailers are looking to us for clear and accurate timelines on when product can arrive. We've had to have some hard conversations around those delays, but they're necessary ones.
Shuang: Yeah. Like you mentioned, at home workout equipments one of the categories that does see a growth during this time. How has that been like navigating that because I know that it's hard to see maybe friends who are going through a tough time or business going through a tough time and you're trying to be helpful and also manage your own set of challenges that you've essentially never dealt with before.
Max: Yeah. It's been a strange-
Natalie: No, you go.
Max: It's been a strange thing because the broader circumstances are obviously horrific. And so, what we've done as a brand is try to add value to people's lives by doing Instagram Live workouts with trainers that we know, and also fast tracking and effort to create Bala fueled workouts, and we've put those up for free on our website. So basically giving people an outlet not just by using Bala products. You're welcome to come to the site whether or not you purchase Bala, but giving them a workout that can help them keep moving while at home. So, I think as a brand you have to be realistic about the value you can bring to people's lives in a particularly terrible situation like this one. And for us that meant providing a resource for people to come continue to work out while at home.
Shuang: And that's also offering people a sense of normalcy and routine to just give a little bit of distraction from everything else that's happening in their days.
Max: Totally.
Natalie: For sure.
Shuang: Awesome. So, you mentioned that you have a really great relationship with the manufacturer that you have now. What was that process like finding that one manufacturer? Did you guys go through a whole bunch, and how do you work with someone who's on the other side of the world, and figure out logistics together?
Natalie: Yeah, I would say, well, early on, we found the manufacturer because Max's family is in the toy business. So we asked around, his dad and his uncles and got a random contact at a factory that might be able to help us. So he helped us with their first few runs. But then the factory that we're using now was actually a guy who reached out to us on Kickstarter, and he just was so persistent. He kept reaching out, and eventually we gave him a chance. And he is the best partner. Him and his factory, we love working with them. It is interesting because our days start at different times, obviously. But it's we're really, the way we work together is just we're always in communication. We're always texting or emailing all day and night, and really just being really close partners. And that's the way we work together.
Natalie: We went overseas before our first production run to see the factory and make sure everything was good. We were going to be doing that right about now, but obviously COVID happened. So I think the best... the way we work with them really is just close, close communication because you really can do everything online these days and be texting and calling. And so, we just stay really close lockstep to get the production perfect.
Shuang: That's so cool to know that Kickstarter not only helped you guys validate this idea, get customers, but it also got you a supplier. So, that's [crosstalk 00:37:04]-
Natalie: Yeah, I know. It's really crazy.
Max: Totally. Honestly, it's also smart on the supplier end because I think what they do fairly methodically is monitor Kickstarter, and when a project is funded, and the authors of that project aren't necessarily familiar with production they can come in and say, "We can produce this for you rather simply." So, to Natalie's point, treating our suppliers as partners rather than vendors has just gone a long way for us to co-develop new products together, to make those incremental improvements to the existing products, and to explore things that we wouldn't otherwise even know were possible.
Shuang: That's awesome. I also wanted to talk about your content, which is editorialize, beautiful, and at which point did you decide this is the direction we're going to go versus a more hardcore workout focus. It's more fashionable, and I feel like, I don't know, I just really love how you guys have approached it.
Natalie: That's really sweet. Thank you. We basically, early on, we were like, we're entering this, the fitness market. And we thought, how could we differentiate? From a branding perspective, aside from product, how could we differentiate ourselves so that we look different than any other legging active wear brand out there. And we thought that, that would be by doing a little bit of more of the fashionable tilt. Almost ridiculous, like some of our photos are ridiculous, and not fitness at all.
Natalie: And so, we thought that, that would be our entry into the market, and that would be what we could own. So early on, that was our strategy. And we had our brand director who is my sister does of our content, and she honestly just has such an amazing eye and she's really good. We all collab on the photo shoots, but she really drives the content. And that was always her vision too, which really helped early on, and we were just very clear that we didn't want to put anything out that was basic. We wanted it to be just fashion forward, and so not fitnessy. Every now and then, of course, we'll put out some fitnessy content, but we wanted it to be more editorial and unique, and just different. Like why is that a fitness brand?
Max: Yeah. Bala does sit at this interesting intersection between fashion and fitness. It's a fitness product with fitness benefits, but this idea that the person you are in your everyday life is different than the person you are when you go to the gym. One can be really fashionable and considered, and the other is all about being hardcore. It's just a division that didn't really make much sense to us. So, we're treating a fitness product as part of your fashionable life. And fashion is awesome in that it's unapologetic and can be absurd and still feel powerful and energetic almost. So, it's been a really gratifying approach to the product to be able to just challenge some of the the norms we've all come to accept around the fitness space.
Shuang: Yeah. It's very refreshing. I can see why free people would notice you guys because it is just so different from all the other fitness Instagram content that you see. [crosstalk 00:40:49]. No worries. Speaking of your sister, I know that your team is actually quite small. Was that a conscious decision to keep your team lean instead of expanding and having more staff?
Natalie: I think everything goes back to the way we bootstrapped, and we are so lean even to the point where Erica, my sister was hired before Max came on full time a month ago. So, it was like, I think that's just ingrained in our brain to be lean and try to always be as lean as possible. But recently, we have grown our team a little bit. We have a head of sales. We've hired my other sister, Jessica, to do customer service and sales. And then we also have Erica, the other sister. So, we're a team of five right now. We'll probably by the end of the year could grow by a few people. So, basically, we try to outsource as many things as we can. So, whenever we do run digital ads, we'll be outsourcing that to a guy we know versus bringing somebody in-house. As much as we can outsource to operate lean we will, but when there becomes a need for an in-house person, that's when we decide, okay, it's time to bring another person on essentially.
Max: Yeah. And I would add, it's funny, we have friends that have started businesses by raising money first, and then they're able to hire up with that cash. And all of a sudden, almost overnight, you have a team of 10 that is fully functional, and all your disciplines are covered. As Natalie mentioned, we've just taken a different grassroots approach on all these elements of the business. So, we're scaling relative to need as opposed to just building a team and then trying to scale from there. So, it's not to say any one approach is better than the other, but just based on the genesis of our company it's made sense to do it this way.
Shuang: Cool. It sounds like you guys are running a modern day family business. 
Max: Yeah. Pretty much [crosstalk 00:43:07].
Natalie: Definitely a family business.
Shuang: Right. So, you guys being life and business partners, at which point did you realize, we can actually work together and we actually complement each other very well in a business setting as well.
Max: Yeah. It's funny, it's not something that's as simple as writing roles and responsibilities on a piece of paper. You do over time learn one another strengths in a business setting. And it's not a real linear process, but because we are life and business partners, we've figured it out over months and years about what each of us should own and then allowing the other person to own that thing. So, Natalie owns the supply chain and those logistics, whereas I'm more in the product development space amongst many, many other things. We each were about 15 different hats. But it's not something that I think either one of us would say is easy to navigate, but you do figure it out over time. Thankfully we're now in a place where we understand what each of us brings to the table, and we've chopped up roles and responsibilities accordingly.
Shuang: Nice. And for other couples who might think about venturing into this dual professional personal life, what would you say is one thing that you guys really cherish to make sure there is a balance between personal and professional life?
Natalie: I think, that's definitely hard, especially when you're running a business that is a lean team and growing fast. It's kind of like you're always working, but we just try to do... Well, lately, we'll do things like... It's all different now that COVID's happening, and we're all shelter in place, but we'll do a... We have to work at least one of the weekend days, but maybe we'll do Sunday off. And so, it's like we try to just not talk about work, and go enjoy each other. Or maybe it's like we take the full weekend off, and maybe we just work, have a concise meeting from 11:00 to 12:00 in the morning, and then are not working the rest of the day. We're just enjoying each other. So, we try to do that or we'll go on dinner dates, and we'll be like, "Let's not talk about work," which never really happens. But I would say, that's how we do it. I don't know.
Max: Yeah. To the extent that it's possible to create separation between church and state.
Natalie: So hard.
Max: That's the intent is to create some boundaries for the business, and some boundaries for our own personal lives. Admittedly, they're basically one in the same. So, it can be hard hard to do that. I suppose the other thing that is, it's not all that deep, but to the extent that you can just keep it fun. There's going to be days where things are really, really stressful, and throw on some music and just get it done. There's no real alternative. You can embrace the stress or you can just rise above it. And so, when things have been at their worst in terms of logistics, and the daily challenges of running a business, we have tried to flip the switch and make it as fun as possible.
Shuang: Awesome. I noticed that you guys now have a bit of apparel and there's sliders in addition to the bangles. What else are you guys exploring right now, and what are some new things you guys want to tackle?
Max: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:46:56]. Can I tackle this?
Natalie: Yeah.
Max: I'm passionate about this particular question. I think what we have stumbled on with Bala Bangles is that we now live in this world where people are dressing up to go to the gym, and when they get to the gym, the products they are interacting with while there are under designed. It's this weird tension of beautiful people going to a not so beautiful space. And so, we are actively trying to bring design to fitness products and accessories that might not otherwise have seen much innovation in years or decades. So, I don't think we're prepared to say specifically the kinds of things because we're launching some new products in June, but it's basically bringing a design sensibility to these otherwise utilitarian products that is our product development strategy.
Natalie: Yeah, so we have two really exciting products coming, as Max mentioned in June. But I would say our products are basically anything we ever put out we want it to inspire movement. So you see it and you want to move with it or just incorporate it into your everyday life. So yeah, that's what we can say there. But yes, stay tuned for some fun stuff in June.
Shuang: That's exciting. I'm excited to see the Bala flair within all aspects of the gym.
Natalie: Yes.
Shuang: Awesome. Any last bits of tips that you want to offer to the listeners that I haven't touched upon yet? What else are some of the important things that you picked up along the way that really helped you guys?
Max: I think we've touched on this probably quite a few times already, but for us it's been really critical to just embrace a learning approach to all our elements of the business. And so, admittedly, as we've touched on, there are things we're not yet doing today that we intend to do tomorrow. We have taken a really methodical approach to addressing one pain point or weakness at a time and getting that to the very best version of itself before moving on to the next. So, I think our iterative approach to this business of getting better each and every day, whether that's on product or day to day operations has been... that's the entire keystone that's made this thing possible.
Shuang: Nice. Amazing. I feel like you guys acknowledge that you don't know certain things, and you go for it anyways. It's the reverse of imposter syndrome. So, how do you take that realization to say, "I don't know this, but I'm going to chase this idea anyways?"
Natalie: I think we've actually learned that along the way. So, early on, it's like, even just back end of Amazon, anyone who sells on Amazon knows it can be a beast and really challenging. And you have to watch these 30 minute tutorial videos to set up your products and add inventory and just deal with drama on Amazon. So, that's an example where it's like, "Okay, well, then we figured that out." So then it gives you confidence to figure the next hurdle that comes your way out. So I think early on by honestly just doing it rather than having it on your to-do-list, there was a sense of peace when you did figure it out, and it gave us confidence to then go do that with another challenge.
Shuang: Awesome. That's great to hear. Well, thank you so much, Max, and Natalie, for chatting with us. I'm excited for the new product launches for you guys.
Natalie: Yes. Thank you. It was so great chatting with you.
Max: Yeah. Thank you.