Felix: Today, I'm joined by Candice Monroe from Buttercream Clothing. Buttercream Clothing is a slow fashion brand that ethically and locally produces comfortable and adorable size inclusive garments. And was started in 2013 and based out of Calgary. Welcome Candice.
Candice: Thanks. Thanks for having me, Felix.
Felix: Yeah. So for the folks out there that might not be familiar with this term, explain to us what is slow fashion.
Candice: Yeah, so slow fashion basically just means that things are made ethically and locally and we try our very best to prevent any sort of waste in production. So we make small batches and we service our customers with a couple of different types of sales avenues. So we have a presale model and then a ready to ship model. So that's kind of how we approach slow fashion. Just for the sake of not making too much, not wasting fabric. And then also trying to make patterns that are using most of the fabric. If you can imagine fabric utilization, it becomes really important not to have waste in production.
Felix: Yeah. And why did you choose this model? Why was this important to you?
Candice: In the very beginning it was kind of just the only way we knew how to make clothing. I literally started at my kitchen table, so I was sewing garments at my table. I was the only seamstress and I hired local people. It was just kind of an organic way to get the business growing and scaling. And then as I got to know more about fashion and learn about industry, it just felt like the right fit and made in Canada. We're really proud of that. So yeah, it was just kind of an organic way to move forward. And then now we're really taking a stance in being local, being ethical, especially in the economy right now we're trying to support as many locals as we can.
Felix: Got it. So you mentioned some of the kind of key tenets of your approach to kind of key values around preventing waste and the small batches. What else are areas that people should look at if they are interested in creating a business like yours of a slow fashion, what other parts of it are important too to take note of?
Candice: Yeah, definitely the fabric itself that you're using. We all struggle. It's really hard to call any fabric 100% sustainable or eco-friendly, there's a lot of that greenwashing happening. So trying to use better fabrics is a goal of ours. It's really difficult too when you're starting out to get better fabrics or more eco-friendly fabrics because of the high quantity, if you have to order. So even now we're talking to a mill in Ontario, Canada and they mill your own fabrics for you right in Canada. And it's a higher, like as a better eco-friendly status. But it's really hard to talk about fabric production that's perfectly sustainable. So whether you're using more natural fibers, that's a really big conversation in ethical fashion right now.
Felix: Yeah. So it sounds like a big part of this is like finding or sourcing the right materials and right partners. How do you know, how do you make sure that, or at least do your best to make sure that the partners that you have, the materials you use align with your values?
Candice: Yeah. So I've traveled a lot for fabric sourcing back in the day meeting different mills, or I used to go to these conventions. There's a great one in Las Vegas actually called the MAGIC fabric show. You can source fabric there and you can source garments there for stores that are selling from other producers. So yeah, we've done a lot of due diligence traveling around meeting people. You can look for certifications. That's a really great thing to look for when you're sourcing fabric. And that's simply just looking at what certifications can we find for different types of fabric, whether you're using knit fabrics or woven fabrics, there's a lot of different certifications. So that's a good thing to have. And then when we're talking about manufacturing, I always make sure to visit my mills or my factories.
I get to know my home seamstresses. That relationship becomes really tight for us as a brand because I want to make sure everyone is getting treated fairly and getting paid fairly. And they're happy with the work that's like the core value of Buttercream is the ethical production. So I think just doing your due diligence, taking time, visiting your suppliers and your people, if you can, I know it's hard right now, but that is the most important thing to make sure everyone has the same value system as yourself as a brand.
Felix: Got it. So you had mentioned, you kind of fell into this model, but you fully adopted these days and you mentioned that you came into a buy because it was the only way you knew and the way you knew how to get started. So talk to us back then. Where did the idea come from?
Candice: So I'll take you way, way back. So I've always sewn as a young teenager, I used to sew and I love creating things and that was always just like a hobby, right? And so I had my first child, this was 10, 11 years ago now. When I had my first child, I thought I wanted to stay home, I want to do something. My parents were entrepreneurs, they had a hair salon and I'm like, "Okay, I can start my own business. It shouldn't be that hard." So at that time I started making aprons, I called it Buttercream Aprons, and I sewed these vintage looking aprons at my kitchen table. And I went to farmer's markets. I was on Etsy. I started out on Facebook back in the day when it was really easy to get sales on Facebook.
And that was how it really started in this Buttercream Apron. So I had this little brand and then it became really apparent to me as soon as people knew I could sew, they started asking for clothing like dresses or skirts or shirts. And that's when I realized, okay, the aprons aren't selling great. It seems like women spend a lot of money on clothing. So I pivoted at that point and changed it to be called Buttercream Clothing. So that's where the name came from. It doesn't really make any sense but people like it and that's kind of where everything started to snowball. So we started making garments, really simple tank tops and dresses and skirts. And then I met more seamstresses. I met factories and that's kind of how the brand became more robust and a bit more sophisticated from my home kitchen table setup I had before.
Felix: Got it. So I think there's an important point in the store that you pointed out that I want to touch on, which is around this pivot where you first started with aprons. And then you had recognized that, like you said, a lot of women spend money on clothing. Was it as simple as that, just that realization or what detours you take along the way to determine what was the best kind of area of focus for you and the business?
Candice: Yeah, it was pretty much that, when I realized the apron sold a little bit here and there, but people don't buy aprons often. I now do speaking engagements and one of my favorite things to do when I talk to a group of people like entrepreneurs starting out with these questions is I say to them, "How many people here have bought an apron in the last month?" And no one ever raises their hand. So for me, it's become like what niche are you filling and what is the actual need for your business? And I see that a lot of times with new startup businesses, I love startup businesses. But if you're flogging away this one product and it's not selling, I often recommend taking a hard look at it and be brutal and see like, how can I change this to make it better?
What does the market require of me? And when I had this question over and over again, people said to me, "Oh, you should make this dress. I really love this dress I had years ago, I'd love to have something similar." Or, "Oh, I'd love this bamboo fabric in a tank top." That's when I realized the requests that were coming in weren't for no reason, it's what the market was demanding. So that was really, really important to me to listen to that and pivot completely, like I changed the whole brand. And even now we do that too with our communities, we ask them what they want, what pieces they want to see, what colors, what changes we should make to current pieces. And that market research is so valuable.
So pivoting, a lot of people can feel like that's failure, but I just look at it like you're getting great information from your customers. And I don't think, there's not really a way that you can see if it's going to work or test the waters. I think just like changing, trying things. And that's sort of your market research when you hit the ground running, right?
Felix: Yeah. I think there's this advantage and also disadvantage of being really sticking to it and not giving up and locked into a vision where you just believe in it so much that you refuse to let it go and look around. Like you had mentioned that having a little more perspective and switching from aprons to women's fashion, it's not a huge shift, but if aprons was your thing and you thought that was your thing, I could see that being a difficult thing to let go of. Was it easy for you early on or did you find ways to kind of give up the aprons and move on to women's clothing?
Candice: It was really hard actually. In the very first days, I didn't know how to sew clothing. I only did basic things. I remember I used to have these dress parties, I'd go to someone's house, we'd have friends over and I'd sell presale dresses. And at that time, yeah, it was really hard. I had to find the right machines, learn new techniques, and learn pattern making. I've never gone to fashion and design school. And it was very scrappy at the time, I was just putting all the pieces together. So it was a struggle. A lot of it has been a struggle, everything that we do and learn in the business is new and you try to figure out the best path. So those early days were super exciting, but very, very difficult and a big steep learning curve.
And then once you get to that point, it's kind of like doing the same thing over and over again, especially with production when I'm dealing with home seamstresses or the local ethical factories that I work with in Alberta. It's just the same depths we're doing over and over again. So that becomes quite routine and much, much easier, but yeah, it was a struggle. And everything's been a struggle with any startup. You're wearing all the hats, you're juggling your personal life and the business. It's hard, it's not easy for sure.
Felix: Yeah. And this shift from aprons, which was definitely much more niche than a smaller market, but maybe a market that could have been easier for you to stand out in a much bigger space or a woman's clothing. What were some steps that you took early on to differentiate yourself? What did you find were ways for you to kind of stand out from basically any other store or any other retailer that is selling clothing?
Candice: Yeah. That's a really interesting question too. The people say, "There's so much competition. I have no chance of starting a new brand." But I don't believe that. I think if you can do something original and do it really well and offer amazing customer service, I think there's room for all of us. And I do love helping new brands because I think if we can help each other elevate our brands, we can all get ahead. So that's a really interesting question. For Buttercream, I think first and foremost was using real people as models. And when I say real people, I mean not professional models. So we've always used friends and family, people that are actually customers, some of our customers are our best models, so showing real body types and then offering more inclusive sizing. Right now we do the size extra small to 3X.
This year we're expanding into size 4X. And then next year we're trying our very best to offer a size 5X. That straight there has been really important for the brand and to set us apart. So most traditional brands have not offered anything plus size for years. And so I do believe that's becoming more popular. So certainly our model representation, our sizing, the quality of the garments and just the style of it. I wouldn't call our brand very trendy. We're very much more of a classic, basic piece that you'd wear every day for years and years to come. So that's kind of what differentiates the brand from other ones is like basic pieces you can wear for the next six years you'd never know what season you bought it in, and then just offering that inclusivity.
Felix: Got it. And one thing I've heard from other entrepreneurs and definitely from my wife, which is around shopping online for clothing is hard, especially for a woman it's hard to imagine what certain styles look like. And you mentioned using real people, which I think makes it a lot easier to imagine what the clothing will look like. But what kind of struggles have you faced there around getting people to kind of almost try it out for the first time, especially when it comes to this presale model where the purchase is kind of even more conceptual than just buying something that lands in your mailbox a week from now? How do you bridge that gap?
Candice: Yeah. That's an instant gratification piece. It's hard right now online. We're all used to getting our parcels in a couple of days. So I was lucky in the beginning when I did a ton of markets, I did local markets, farmers markets, crafters markets back in the day. I feel like I was lucky in those days that I got to meet so many people. People got to try the garments and feel them and wear them on the spot and take them home. I really believe that's where our clients base grew from. And then they got to know the styles and that kind of helped the brand gain that traction online. You meet someone in the market, you talk to them and you get to know them, they buy your piece. And then they come back to the website and can order something similar or email or message about, "Hey, how does this fit compared to the top I got at that market?"
So that was a really cool start. We did a ton of work at the markets, one every weekend for a couple of years. That really, really built the brand. So online shopping, I feel now has grown so much in the last year that people are getting over these obstacles to purchase. I think having a good customer support staff, or if it's yourself just being available, when people have size questions, I think that's so important to be able to offer proper advice. We do a few things. So one thing I'd like to do is videos like videos of the garment on people. So here's a size extra small, here's a medium, here's a 3X, and it's an actual video where you can see them moving. We also have a model stats page on our Shopify site.
So the stats page shows a bunch of different models and we've got about 10 different body sizes on there with their height, models let us post their weight and then bust waist and hip measurement. So it's very specific. Most people shopping can go to our models' stat page and compare their measurements and be like, "Oh, Ryan is a size 1X I'm certainly the same size as her." And then they'll know what to order on the website.
Felix: Got it. That makes sense. So a lot of the business early on was from people that bought in person and then repeat purchase online later?
Candice: Yeah, exactly. 
Felix: Got it. That's awesome. So you had mentioned that you started business as a stay-at-home mom with a vision to be able to work from home and contribute to the family. So when this thing starts growing, talk about the challenges of that for other people out there that are in the same situation where they want to start a business, they're home, they want to start a business and there's just a lot going on. I can imagine. So tell us about how to balance all of that.
Candice: Yeah. That's a great question. The work-life balance question I get a lot, people ask me, how do you do it all? I've got four kids ages 11 ranging to two. So we've got quite the age gap here. I don't know what the proper answer is to that one, because we all, I think everyone in business and also working other jobs, if you're not an entrepreneur, there's not really the proper answer to that. We don't really have that perfect formula. So for us the business started taking off years ago. My husband actually quit his job to stay home with the kids when they were little. That was really helpful when they were so young. So that was a great support to have him on board. It's not possible for a lot of people and it's also not a really wise move for a lot of people if your business is just growing and your income isn't stable.
So I think for us, it's just been a lot of late nights, we've worked a ton of late nights. I don't know if that's the best way to do it, but that's what we've done. And then now that the team is growing, we're delegating as much work out as possible to people that we know can do it as well as us or better than us. So I've got a group in Alberta that's just amazing. They're taking over for instance, all the order fulfillment, they're packing all the orders. We have people helping with email. I'm still doing most of the communication and social media, but there's key players that we have involved in the brand now that is taking some of that work off of us. But yeah, it's really hard to answer how do you have that perfect work-life balance? I think we're all just doing our best to kind of survive right now.
Felix: Yeah. I think there's that sometimes a problem that no one really thinks about, which is about growing too fast, whether that means that the business cannot support or sustain the growth, or maybe you just want that balance more and find that pace. Did you try anything like around that I've heard of other businesses just kind of purposefully slowing down scaling just to keep that balance and not running around with their hair on fire all the time?
Candice: Yeah. We just kept growing. I feel like the first couple of years growth was super stressful, but good. We were so grateful for it. Our very first year compared to our second, we had about a 10 times increase in sales. So that was stressful because we're having to find the production and also the money. You have to have money to grow a brand. And when you're so new and your business is in the beginning, things are slow. It's hard to find that funding. So now I think we're at a nice spot where we're growing steadily each year, but certainly the first, I'd say three, four years were very, very stressful and we had some good support from different lenders. And then just being creative, we started doing different things like Instagram flash sales. Yeah, it's certainly just a time to get creative and figure out what you need to do to get there.
I love setting goals. We have financial goals for every day, week and year. So that's kind of what drives us now is hitting those goals, making sure that we're tracking on those. But yeah, we haven't tried to slow down the growth as much, but we're trying to certainly provide products faster by having stuff ready to ship. We call our ready to ship section freshly baked. So every about two weeks now we're launching a new freshly baked garment. We put it on the site and it shifts out within one or two days or even the same day sometimes.
Felix: Wow. So basically every two weeks, are you coming out with a new design or what is the exit? That sounds like a pretty fast turn on every two weeks, there's something new that's going out.
Candice: It is. So some of them are new, but some of them we bring back seasonally. So over the last two, three years, we've been doing this model. So basically I've got three ethical factories in Calgary. Those factories are usually doing two to three styles at a time for me. So every time they've done the style, we launch it on the site and they're just constantly cycling through their work. So yeah, it's months of pre-planning. Right now I just planned for right up until the end of fall. So we get all the fabric for them. We get the patterns to the factories and they're constantly working through these big batches of styles. And then yeah, we launched them as soon as they're in our hands and staggered them. So with every week or two, every three weeks about this next, in the next couple of weeks here we have an exciting collaboration collection coming out with a blogger in Vancouver. 
And it's the first time we're launching five styles that are all ready to ship at one. So it's going to be interesting to try a different aspect of this model, having a whole collection that people can buy like a shirt, a scarf, pants, a sweater all at the same time.
Felix: Got it. And then what's that launch process like once the production is done or as his production is wrapping up and you're ready to put this on your site for sale? What's the launch process like to drive attention to the new products?
Candice: I have kind of a great system now, we've got this flow chart we share with the team. So we pick up the product. We photograph it on models. We have new photo shoots all the time. So we've got fresh models, a new colors of the product. Once we have photography back, we load it on the site. We then advertise on Facebook and Instagram and send it out to my newsletter, launch it on the site and that's basically it. And then usually the pieces will sell out within the first day. That's what we've been seeing. If there's any leftover, the leftover pieces, that's when I'll do like a flash sale or I'll do something creative where we can send out the extra garments to, we've got a charity in Vancouver, we work with called Mamas for Mamas, still donate garments to them. But yeah, it's a pretty nice system. We get the product, we launch it itself and most of it's gone pretty quick.
Felix: That's awesome. And you had mentioned that you have a collaboration with a blogger coming up. Is this something you do often in collaboration with influencers or bloggers?
Candice: I've worked with influencers in the past to promote products, but have never done a collaboration. So this one, it's a blogger named Kaitlin Hargreaves, she's a part of the Jillian Harris group and she's amazing. I met her years ago. So this was the very first collection that we've actually made garments as a team. So Kaitlin had a ton of input on the pieces. She designed them herself. I had samples made at my factory. We sent it to her, she approved it or she changed them and we finally perfected the five pieces. So yeah, this is the very first time we've actually done a co-branded collection and yeah, it's pretty neat to see, I'm excited to get her people excited about it. Because my people already know the Buttercream following is strong, but to have a new kind of set of eyes on it, it's going to be really exciting for us.
Felix: Now what's the process normally for developing new designs or new clothing?
Candice: Yeah. So my creative director, her name is Rita, she's in Alberta. Her and I sit down and we come up with new styles and then we sample with the factory. So I have a digital artist in Calgary. I keep saying in Calgary because my family lives in DC. So my team runs out of Calgary and I'm remote here in DC. So my designer will send us images. We tell her what we went, she sends us images and then the factory does one sample in my size or Rita's size. And then we try it on, we make changes, we go back to sampling. So it takes about two, three, four samples, and then we're ready for production. Once we're ready for production, the designer then prints out pattern. The factory cuts our fabric, they sew it up. And then that's when the whole launch process happens.
Felix: I like that, that it starts off with, or there's a step in there where there are samples that you or your team try on. Now, when you do get new pieces, new samples, what are you usually looking for?
Candice: Oh, there's so many things. Sampling is such a science on its own. So we always know what we want. We get ideas from other people, just people watching or garments that we've had in the past and we like, and we tend to be like, "You know what, I don't see a garment like this." For instance, we're making this jogging pants right now, these joggers. We're like we've never seen this style of jogger, but in a capri length, a crop length. So we're making that right now. So we get the sample and we try it on first of all, for fit for comfort, making sure all the stitching's good, pockets are always like the bane of our existence, making sure the pockets fit right. Any kind of closures, making sure they work. So there's quite a process in the actual approval of a sample and then going back and forth with the factory saying like, "Hey, this stitch wasn't exactly what I was hoping for. Can we change it to this other finish?"
But yeah, once we get it and we know it's perfect, it's like, "Yeah, this is the piece." I always have that feeling of when you know that the final sample, that feeling of confidence to move forward, because there's nothing worse than going into production with a product that you know isn't awesome. So we make sure it's just perfect before that.
Felix: Awesome. So now you mentioned to us in the pre-interview about how one of the most impactful decisions you had made was to hire local seamstresses and also local factories. Because as things start to grow, you were no longer, you could no longer do all this sewing yourself. How early did this happen for you? When did you start saying, "I can't do this. I can't run the business and do the sewing of every garment." When did that happen?
Candice: Yeah. So Buttercream Clothing got busy when my first child was about three and I just had my second baby at that time. I remember sitting at the table sewing a whole sack of dresses one day and they were outside playing with my husband. I'm like, "What am I doing? Someone else can do this." That's the moment that I'm like my talent isn't that special that anyone else can do what I'm doing. Granted in business I do think as the owner or CEO that we need to be doing specific things that no one else can replace. So the sewing aspect of it, I really figured it out, anyone else can do this. As long as they have the same work ethic, they have the same talent and skill, it's not that hard to find. So at that time I hired a girl from a local community fashion school, which was really cool to find, a student.
And she started sewing the dresses for me and our scarves and accessories. And that was the very first kind of taste of getting my time back. I don't have 40 hours of sewing this week. I can hire someone else to do it. And our profit margin could support paying someone to make the garments. And yeah, that's how it grew is I started finding people from fabric stores or colleges, online, friends and family, and now our team in Alberta is lovely. The home seamstress team, there's about 12 women that work full-time and they take care of the presale items. So presale pieces get purchased off of the site and then they make them as they get ordered. So every week they get a new list of what was ordered recently.
Felix: That's awesome. Now, when you did start focusing, when you were able to offload the production, the sewing and get back all this time, what did you want to start focusing your time on instead?
Candice: Yeah, at that time I was just really growing the brand. So we really focused on our Facebook advertising at that time. Facebook did us, it was amazing for us to grow and yeah finding that niche clientele. So that was my role at that time was the marketing and just the growth of the brand. And then also design was so important at that time. I was making all my own patterns then. So I spent a lot of time designing the garments. But yeah, it's funny when you grow and as you hire out, you delegate, I still feel like there's not very much time left over somehow at the end of the day, but I think it's just more people to manage. Right?
Felix: Yeah. I think a lot of people will see that this is an investment to hire and to delegate the work that you used to do. How quickly did you see this start paying off then now that you offload the production? Was it a gradual transition or did you find people right away within weeks and all of a sudden you're free to focus on what you want to focus on?
Candice: No, it's very gradual, especially with production like this. The sampling process with the home seamstress is quite tedious as well. So you need to be training people to do things the right way. You're getting things back from them. You have to be critiquing them how to change things, make it better. So, no, it wasn't within weeks or months, I feel like it was years. And because we were growing and hiring more and more people, that process is something that you're doing over and over again. So yeah, I still feel like it was two to three years until we were feeling a bit more stable with our time. And now the days are just different. So we've got a lot of email communications, a lot of communications with the team. In Calgary, we just got ourselves a brand-new warehouse, which is new to us.
We've never had a proper space. The business has been functioning out of everybody's houses for so long. So the last little bit has been setting up the warehouse, getting that all organized. And the team has been amazing to do that while I'm not there. So yeah. It's funny how your time, it kind of gets traded from doing everything in the beginning to doing the important things. I mean, every job is important, but now we're overseeing the growth and the marketing. So no, I don't feel like we actually got hours and hours back, but luckily now we do take most weekends off, which was a treat. So yeah, it's just, how much do you want to work? And I say this to people all the time, because I actually do business coaching now. Do you want to work all the time? Because as an entrepreneur I feel like we, I don't know if we make ourselves, but we end up just working a lot more hours than most people would.
Felix: Yeah. There's nobody, there's no structure. Right. You can keep on going if you want to. There's no time of clock-out unless you develop that kind of structure for yourself. I think that's a really important point. So when people come to you and we ask that question, what are you looking to get out of it? What kind of answers are you looking to get out of them?
Candice: Well, that's a hard one too. I think you can create structure in your day. And I think a lot of people do that well. My struggle with the business is just not being able to stop because I really do enjoy it. So we tend to work a lot because we want to, and because we see the reward. So I'm kind of a bad one to put proper boundaries in place because I really enjoy work. I wake up and I'm working and I go to bed and I'm still working but granted we do take time for the kids in the day and then weekends off. So it's kind of what you want to make it. And that's the nice part about being an entrepreneur is like, what do you want out of it? Do you want to have set hours? Do you want to work all the time? But it also goes hand in hand with the success of your business. You do need to put the time in and it's certainly not easy.
Felix: Now when you started scaling the team out, what was your hiring process? You've mentioned a team of 12 full-time seamstresses now. What's the hiring process when you bring on someone new?
Candice: I met a lot of great people in the beginning doing markets again in Calgary. So other people with brands and some people want to work for other brands. So for instance, one of my main seamstresses has her own kids' clothing line. So I met her through friends at a market and yeah, she's like, "Oh, I'd love to fill for you if you need extra help." I'm like, "Okay, well that's awesome because she already knows what type of clothing we were making because she did similar things in kids' clothing. So through her I met some really cool people because there's a great community in Alberta as seamstresses and talent, people that can do pattern design or I don't know, there's a really cool film industry there. My one seamstress has worked in the film industry and she's done costume design.
So yeah, it's been really organic meeting people through my current seamstresses. Yeah, I'm constantly asking like, "Hey, do you know anyone that's talented?" And word of mouth for me has been the main process. And then the hiring process again is just basically sitting down with them, showing them how I make a garment, having them do a sample for me and then that's it. Then they're off and running if they like the work, if they can do it in a timely manner. We hire our seamstresses as contractors so they can get paid by the piece. And it's nice because they work for other people. They have their own brands, a lot of them. So it's a very flexible kind of feeling. 
Felix: Got it. Because they're spread all over the place and you mentioned that you're doing this work remotely as well. What have you found to help kind of manage this entire team entire workforce to make sure that these kind of pre-sales are done on a schedule?
Candice: Yeah, that's my job. I'm running the freshly baked part, at least the ready to ship stuff. So I'm always in contact with the factories, making sure that we're getting production happening. Everything's rolling. And then Rita is in charge of the seamstress list as far as the presale goes. So we've actually brought in an app called Katana. It's K-A-T-A-N-A Katana is on our website. That's been really, really cool for us. So now a pre-sale order comes in on the site and it filters through Katana and that pulls fabric out of our fabric inventory. And that creates a seamstress list. So for instance, Christina will do all of the dresses and leggings. Leah will do all the shirts and sweatshirts. So Katana is the one you set these they're called recipes. You set the recipes up and then every garment that sells it comes through this app and it filters it out for us. Because we used to do this all on Excel spreadsheet, which was a nightmare. 
So now it's really nice, super easy to use is one-click seamstress lists are made and then when orders get fulfilled, you mark them done in Katana. And then we use another app called ShipStation and then it kind of populates that, fulfills the order. So the whole process is quite automated now.
Felix: That's great. And one thing you mentioned too, as the team was growing and the uncertainty of COVID-19 kicked in last year and you were concerned like most businesses about what's going to happen with your business. You were concerned initially about maybe having to let some of the staff go, but you had mentioned to us that you were actually pleasantly surprised that you were able to grow the team at that time. Tell us about that. What was happening? How did you adapt or what changed along the way that allowed you to grow the team during these kind of troubling and turbulent times?
Candice: Yeah. When COVID hit, so last March, April, I was so panicked for the team. That was the first thing I thought it was like, what if we can't support the team? Because most of the people that worked for us, this is a bigger source of their income. So I was really worried about them. And of course our family, I didn't know what this mean for our family. So suddenly April became our biggest month that we've had ever except for last Boxing Day. 2021 Boxing Day, but April of 2021 was so busy and I just saw people showing up online. The whole shop, local movement really meant something to the people that we have connections with. I just saw people coming out to support online brands. And I think people that had never shopped online before as a rule started dabbling in this world because you kind of had to shop online with everything closed.
And so for us, it was incredible to see our sales doubled pretty much overnight, which was so wild. I mean we never would have wished this on anybody, but it was just an interesting side effect of this. And because of that, our team has grown so much. We only had one support staff that was helping with fulfilling orders. Now we've got four and we're looking for another one to bring on. Our seamstress team grew and yeah, it was just a really, really interesting time to go through. I was so stressed and worried, but then it turned out that it was a perfect storm for online sales. Granted, I feel so horrible for brick-and-mortar stores that have lost everything. Because it's been heartbreaking for so many stores. So yeah, the people I talked to now I'm like, "Do you have an online store? Because if you don't, you need to."
Felix: Yeah. Yeah. So during this, you mentioned that one of the focuses that you had when you offloaded a lot of the production was to focus more on how to get these on kind of online sales to your store. And I think you mentioned that Facebook was an avenue that you're using. Is this how you focus on getting new customers today or what's working well, what has been working?
Candice: Yeah, Facebook, we still use, I still really enjoy it. I have a private group on Facebook called the Buttercream Clothing Try On Group. And this group, you can just search it on Facebook if you want to find it, it's been so amazing for us. This is where our core customers are and this is really where the community shines through. So our customers will get their products. They'll open them, they'll try them on, they'll take pictures of them. And they post in the group. It's just a cool place for people to come together and to share the love of the brand. It's also a really great resource because people will say like, "Hey, do you have a picture of yourself wearing a size 1X dress or a size extra small pants?" And it actually takes a lot of work off my plate because my customers will then say, "Oh, here I am. I'm usually a size, whatever two. And here I am in these pants."
So the try on group on Facebook has been really awesome. We're really focusing on Instagram right now because our Instagram following is growing. And then actually to grow the business and to bring in new customers as finding influencers have been a really amazing for us. So influencers that we send garments out to or pay for promotions. I'm finding that is getting us a lot of attraction on Instagram. So we just market kind of everywhere. Like we do the newsletter, we do Facebook, we do Instagram. That's been really powerful just to keep the brand growing. And then also we have an app on the site called Smile. It's a rewards app. And that also helps bring in new referrals because you get points for referring new customers to the site.
Felix: Awesome. There's lots of avenues there I want to dive into. The first one around influencers. I think influencer marketing is certainly a topic on a lot of, or an avenue on a lot of entrepreneurs minds. I think the concern or the part that they're usually stuck at is around how do you find the right influencer? And how do you make sure that you pick one that's going to work and especially if you're paying for influencers to promote the products. With your experience so far, what have you been noticing about what is a good sign that an influencer might be a good match versus not?
Candice: Yeah, we've gone through, I've worked with a lot of influencers and there's always pluses and minuses. I think seeing an influencer working with a brand similar to yours or a brand that you emulate to be like, that's a really positive sign. So seeing an influencer working with a bigger brand or a brand that has the same values, core values as yours and seeing them do a good job at it. That is a really good thing to watch for. The thing that I struggle with is when an influencer contacts us and they don't follow us, they've never ordered from us. They don't know us. It just doesn't feel authentic sometimes. So finding someone that's already a part of your community or someone that you connect with, it's really important. And then secondly, I think setting your expectations right from the get-go.
So if you work with an influencer, figure out what you're sending them, figure out what you expect from it. Figure out a timeline and talk with them about this openly. I always like to say I'd like this featured by this exact date. Giving a timeline is really good because you'll just never get any sort of feedback from the gift you've sent. Also if you're going to pay them, this is also, this is a topic on Instagram that influencer kind of payment versus free product. And I do like to pay our influencers, either a percentage of sales we get from, if they're sharing a coupon code with their followers or just paying them for a feature, like a certain set amount, we'll pay for a feature. I do believe it's nice to honor your influencers time and pay them in some way.
Some influencers only want clothing and that's fine, that's their choice. But I think just being really transparent with each other, setting our expectations as far as date of delivery and then payment or reciprocation. That's just so important just to get that all out in the open. You can do a contract if you want to create a contract, but I feel like most of the successful relationships we've had is just that communication and making sure that expectations are met both ways. But yeah, finding influencers can be hard. Just look at the people that you admire and who are they using as influencers.
Felix: Awesome. Now, speaking of influencers on Instagram, you mentioned that you're putting more attention here because your Instagram's growing as of this call or this interview, you have almost 45,000 followers on there. What are you posting in there? What's the strategy to engaging with your followers on Instagram?
Candice: Yeah, so we post once or twice a day. I'm trying to post less. I used to post so much, so I'm trying to be a bit more conservative. I think Instagram stories are so powerful right now. So showing behind the scenes, our client base, our customer base really, really enjoys to know what's happening behind the scenes. So for instance, in stories, we'll post the ladies from the fulfillment center in Calgary from our warehouse who will send me pictures like, "Oh, we just got all these garments in. We're going to ship them to the site next week." So I can post behind the scenes of the garments on the table or our team packing up people's orders. That type of stuff that's really exciting to people in the background. So I think that's a good strategy to be present on your Instagram stories.
Engaging with people on your Instagram posts and then also showing them kind of what you do, as an owner, what do you do or as the production manager or maybe you're making the garments like showing that process is really neat. One of my friends in Calgary that I love, her brand is called Salty Sea Dog. She does the coolest thing where she's making pottery on her stories and she's showing every step of the production process. I love watching them because I don't know how to make mugs. I don't know how to make pottery. So I think that's really cool to show your followers what is the process behind the production of your things. And we try to do that. Sometimes I'll do sewing videos or I can show my seamstresses working. It's a bit hard being remote, but that's really important. Letting people in on what you think is boring, but what they would find exciting behind the scenes moments. 
Felix: Yeah. I think is important too, especially for a brand like yours, the kind of slow fashion brand where there's kind of quality over quantity aspect to it that's showing behind the scenes is a great way to emphasize and show the values and educate almost about what what's involved in running the business and creating the products. And you had mentioned that the Facebook group, which is super interesting to me, it sounds like a lot of the repeat purchases are coming from this group, almost a social shopping experience and. And you also mentioned crowdsourcing, like the Q&A and sizing questions that are coming up and having the community contribute to those answers. So tell us more about that. How big has this group grown?
Candice: Yeah, it started out with nothing. It started with a friend of mine Nicole was saying like, "Hey, you should start a group." Because I'm on this other group and we talk about clothing all the time. I'm like, "I don't know if it's going to work for me. So I did start that one with just a couple of people. I think we're almost at 3000 people in the group now. And the cool thing about it is that they're very active. A lot of them are very active and a lot of them are real shoppers. And then when I say real shoppers, I mean, when you have a social media following, not every one of your 45,000 followers are actually customers, right? So the group has been really valuable for that is that they're really present and they're really engaged. And yeah, it's been so cool to see, and it's super positive because social media can be negative sometimes.
And the group is always delightful and really kind, so supportive. So yeah, it started from nothing. It's been a few years now and I do special things there. So the group will get special discount codes no one else would get to make that VIP experience real. They might get products no one else would get or access to inventory that we have that no one else can see. So I think catering to that special core group is super valuable and it's also, it's a fun place for me to go because I know that everyone's really happy to be there.
Felix: Now how do you promote a group like that? How did you kickstart, how did you get members in or how do you consistently get new members into the group?
Candice: Yeah, that was all word of mouth. Like I said, it started from a couple of people and they invited more people. I don't do anything really to advertise that. I've spoken about it on my social media a couple of times, saying on Instagram, "If you want to join the group, here's the link swipe up." But I don't really do that. I'm trying to also keep it quite small. I don't want to have thousands and thousands of people on that group. Because I don't want it to lose it's special feeling. So yeah, it was all word of mouth. I've done a couple of contests in the group saying, invite a friend and you'll get entered in a draw, but yeah, basically very organically it's just grown on its own.
Felix: Yeah. I mean, even in a group of 3000 is getting to a point where it's managing a group, it can get hard. It can get hard to keep up with all the messages and everything. Have you found the kind of growing pains, any ways to kind of deal with the growth to a group of thousands? 
Candice: Yeah. I think communication has always been time consuming. It's funny, when people email me, it's always me. So they'll email or they'll send a message on Facebook or send a message on Instagram or chat through the TDO. We have a TDO chat on the website. All the communications always come to me. So whether one person is contacting on one or two different avenues, it's always coming to the one person here. So I think managing your time, I've been trying to do more like batch work. So I'll sit down, I'll do an hour of emails. I'll clear out Instagram messages like it's more about using your time really efficiently rather than when a message comes in or an email comes in answering one at a time and doing that all day, I can take eight or 10 hours of your day easily.
So yeah, that's my advice is trying to be more efficient with your time and sitting down for batch work. But yeah, the group is pretty awesome for management. They are self-sufficient. They like to talk with each other. There's a few real key players on there that post every day. I don't have to do a ton in there. I do like to engage though, just to be present and I'll also show my appreciation because they are amazing for me and the business. But yeah, I think every different sales avenue it's just every day you got to take care of it and nurture it, but try and be wise with your time. If you can sit down and if you cannot let customers wait for 12 or 24 hours for a reply, but every few hours try and get through messages and emails. That's much more efficient than answering them every single moment as they come in in the day.
Felix: Awesome. Now you mentioned a couple of apps already, Katana, ShipStation, Smile for rewards. Are there any other kind of apps or tools that you use to run the business?
Candice: That's about all we're using right now, our team just communicates over texts and email. We don't really do like we used to use Slack and we used to have some communications, but I find most people just don't want one more app. So Katana has been amazing for us like I said, the Smile app people do love it. We call our points, butter points and people love their butter points. Every order they get, we get a point per dollar. And when you hit, I believe it's 2000 points you get $25 off. So it's a nice little reward. What else do we like? TDO, we do the TDO chat on the website. So it's nice to have people able to access us. And yeah, that's about it. We try to keep our app down to a minimum on the site just because I don't like getting too cluttered up, but I think Katana has made a really big difference for the whole team. And yeah, communications, it's pretty organic again, just through text or call or email.
Felix: Awesome. And then one thing you mentioned about the site was the model stats page, which I don't think I've seen too often with clothing brands or maybe it's definitely not to this extent that you have it. Beyond that page, are there other parts of the website that you personally think are the most important parts of the website? 
Candice: Yeah. Certainly the size chart. So every single piece that we have on a site has its own size chart. That size chart tells you these aren't the garment measurements. So it's saying like this tank top the size small measures, X, Y, Z. I think that's really cool for people to see that size chart per garment. And I know people really enjoy that. But yeah, we get a lot of people asking about returns. So we do have a Returns Center app. What else do we have people asking about? The FAQ page is great, but when it comes down to it, people are shopping there on the site for products having as much information about the product and then as much fit information. That's probably where I spend most of my time giving fit advice inside the site.
Felix: Awesome. Now the one thing that I noticed about the site when it comes to reviews is that there's a ton of reviews with photos, more than on most other sites that I see. How did you pull that off? How did you get people to submit photos with their reviews? 
Candice: Right. Okay. So I forgot about that app. That's a books app, L-O-O-X it's called. It's connected to Smile. So if you leave a photo review in Loox, you get more butter points. So that's very enticing for people. If you leave a photo review, you get more butter points and it's easy to do. It's easy enough to do. And people just like these people leaving the photo reviews, a lot of them are from the Buttercream Clothing Try On Group. So they're already posting photos in the groups. We've got photos to post that they'll review. And yeah, I think we gotten a really high rate of reviews and beautiful reviews too. So I love that part of it. It's great for people to go and read. I know myself when I'm shopping online, I read reviews like crazy if I'm buying something important. So I do think it's a great resource for people to come on and see how a garment fits or get a review from real customers.
Felix: Definitely. So the website is buttercreamclothing.com. And I'll leave you this last question. Now you had mentioned earlier about how goal-focused you guys are, you've mentioned daily goals you want to hit. But just in general, what is something that you are focused on this year that's different than maybe a goal from previous years?
Candice: Yeah, so this year it's more ready to ship. So certainly this collection with Kaitlin that we're doing this has been very unique for us. It's actually taken... We started in August of last year. I can't believe it's been August. So that's been a real focus is having this ready to ship collection. This year we're also expanding besides 4X, which is exciting. And then, like I said, next year, we're trying besides 5X, which should be quite achievable. But yeah, just more ready to ship. We're working on better pieces that we've done in the past and including more styles, more variations of pieces that people love. For instance, there's one garment. We make it the Henley long-sleeve top. So we're bringing that back in the Henley short-sleeve and the Henley tank top. So just kind of taking our favorites and then making more or making better pieces off of those.
So yeah, just more ready to ship. I think we're just doing more of the same just on bigger scales. And it's interesting when I talk to my factories too, our production, we used to make three, 400 pieces at a time, and now we're making seven or 800 pieces of any style at a time. They say everyone that they are working with other brands, they've all doubled their numbers. So that's an interesting stat to see all of us brands are doubling our numbers because the demand is there. So that for us has been a big thing is the growth and kind of projecting our sales numbers to accommodate people without making too much again. So just trying to find that balance.
Felix: Awesome. Get buttercreamclothing.com. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experience, Candace. 
Candice: Thanks for having me. It's so fun.